AGelbert NOTE: This thread is a continuation of
this one.
dreamjoehill said, "
Do NDEs prove that "there is an afterlife of far more longer duration and importance than this one"? I don't see it. They are by definition short lived, the dying return to life and only get a glimpse of what is on the other side.
They don't prove that ego or individual personality live on."AGelbert > dreamjoehillWell, I do see it. WHY? Mainly because of scientific evidence that, during an NDE, when there is ZERO brain activity and a person is 100% flat lined, our being exhibits, not just normal, but increased sensory awareness while irrefutably NOT observing surroundings (e.g. a VERY long number on top of a medical machine, the number on top of an ambulance, a leg amputated and put in a yellow plastic bag during surgery on somebody else in the same hospital, etc., you get the picture) from within the physical body.
Your POV is, perhaps, based on the idea that this brief excursion out of the body is some quasi-physical part of our physical being, that science has not been able to measure yet, that "goes away" when we have been physically dead "for long enough". Modern medicine does not accept that as an objective basis for excluding the permanent existence of our conscious being outside the physical body. An NDE is not the same as being in a Coma without visible life signs. Those in a Coma have brain wave activity.
If your hypothesis was true, it would be expected that people in a Coma (about as close as you can get to being dead - and yeah, severely stressed physiological life support systems cause people to enter into a Coma - Severe Physiological Stress is the excuse most use to "explain" NDE experiences, that is, when they are unable to hang the "hallucination" hat on them.) would report experiencing NDEs, but there is no causal link reported by NDE researchers between a Coma and an NDE.
You CAN trigger a Coma. Doctors do that all the time when absolutely required for some medical procedure, though you certainly can enter a Coma from severe stress without some doctor pumpimg you with massive amounts of insulin. You CANNOT trigger an NDE by putting someone in a Coma.
Clinical death means no senses, period. The fact that there are
proven out of body sensual perceptions (e.g. even from people blind FROM BIRTH before AND AFTER the NDE) is evidence for the physical body being subordinate to the spirit, not the other way around. Thus, this objectively presents the uncomfortable case, for those who think that the 3D Universe is "primary", that our consciousness is a function of that non-physical part of us commonly called the spirit or the soul. The inescapable logical corollary is that the body requires, in addition to all of its physiological mechanisms, a soul to be alive. No, medical science makes no such claim.
So, believe what you will about that brief glimpse of what is on the other side. Anyone that reads what you wrote, and accepts your hypothesis, will come to the conclusion that the "other side" is not really there.
You cannot have it both ways, bro. IF there IS life after death (i.e. the Other Side) it is permanent, not a transitory hallucination on the way to oblivion.
Do you, or do you not, believe in the reality of the metaphysical nature of our Universe along with its physical nature?
Paul the Apostle was not a medical doctor, but
without having to resort to Plato's Cave (
though that works quite well for that purpose 😁),
to explain the overriding eternal reality and importance of the afterlife,
compared physical life with that of a seed. Paul is exactly right.
1 Corinthians Chapter 15 (selected verses for brevity: my emphasis)
35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?
36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:
38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every
seed his own body.
40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:44
It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a 🌱 spiritual body.48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.