Posted by: AGelbert
« on: July 05, 2023, 02:08:58 pm »milo
Four reasons why warmer oceans are not a good thing.
1) Warmer waters hold less oxygen. Fish require oxygen to produce energy. So all the higher fin fish, the ones we like to eat, have less ocean to live in. Ergo, fewer fish.
2) Warmer water changes pH, so shellfish like clams and corals find it more difficult to make shells. Without shells they die.
3) Warmer waters absorb less CO2. So at some point the oceans become saturated. They stop absorbing the extra CO2 we produce and start outgassing it back into the atmosphere. This hasn't happened yet but will become a very big deal when it does start.
4) Warmer waters are more energetic. So besides intensifying El Ninos they also create more violent hurricanes and extreme rain events.
AGelbert > milo
You are right.
milo > AGelbert
Charts like that enrage the anti-AGW crowd, who I think of as the Flat Earth crowd, who refuse to admit such things have been happening. Their belief systems are as brittle and well-defended as those of the anti-vax crowd. I put a lot of effort into refuting their claims... but I know it's an exercise in futility. I'm up against rigid articles of belief.
AGelbert > milo
Agreed. I've often pondered about how the intractable mindset you accurately described comes about. I have never come to a firm conclusion as to the chain of causation that reduces an otherwise reasonable individual into a 🙊🙉🙈 propagandized weapon against common sense thinking and action. 🤦♂️
The best I have been able to reason out is that, somewhere along the line, a 😒 person decides that truth is "relative" 🙃. As soon as that unreality based assumption becomes firmly ensconced, said individual is easily convinced of irrational baloney by the morally bankrupt 🦖 legerdemian pushing 😈 greedballs who wish to add more suckers to their crowd of victims.
A lot of people out there claim that people don't actually believe all the baloney they peddle and that they are just doing it for the money. I disagree. If it was just the money, the suckers would figure out pretty quick who is getting the lion's share of that profit over planet at the expense of the biosphere we all depend on and would QUIT. But, the crowd of willfully stupid seems immune to that in-their-faces logic.
Critical Thinking Skills are in short supply in this "Brave New World".
milo > AGelbert
The thought that there are millions of people out there, all agreeing to lie to us because they're getting paid to do so by shadowy forces, and that for many decades now no one has broken the silence surrounding the Vast Plot, is the sure sign of a shallow, poorly thought out mind.
milo > AGelbert
It's pretty simple, really. The deniers come from authoritarian households, where their parents assured them they knew beyond any doubt what life was like. Usually because the Bible told them. So in later life their worldview becomes rigid, and they come to believe in their convictions far more than they believe the evidence they see in the world around them. "No! It's not getting warmer! Why just last winter we had over an inch of snow. "
AGelbert > milo
I actually was an atheist from the age of 18 to around 28.
By force of reason I slowy became a Deist.
A decade or so later I became a nominal Christian.
Decades later, I now believe the Bible is the Word of God. I come from an authoritarian household. My dad was an inflexible US Army Major that admired Mussolini! My mom was a devout Roman Catholic. I have always been able to reason out right from wrong. I firmly believe that I owe that skill to the fact that Truth was never taught to me as a "relative" concept. Having Faith in a Creator God never inhibited my critical thinking skills, though I believe I did reason well during my youth as an atheist (that is why, as long as they are advocates of egalitarianism and common sense, I can see atheist Socialists as people of good will. 🌞).
Thus, while I recognize that my Faith cannot prove the existence of God or our obligation to worship Him, when pondering causes and consequences of irrational socially destructive behavior among humans, I concentrate on root causes. As you surmise, belief systems certainly can get people to go full Red Queen in Through the Looking Glass, but misguided Christians do not have a patent on willful denial of viable biosphere math. Making them the whipping boy is choosing an easy target. I'm sure the 🦖 Hydrocarbon Hellspawn smile broadly 😈 when they see Socialists placing the lion's share of the blame for our polluted biosphere on 🦖 Fossil Fuel Industry propagandized 🙊🙉🙈 Christians.
Though I am NOT absolving the propagandized Christians from their folly, I suggest you look at the top 100 💰🦀 🐘🦕🦖🐍 🦍🐉 🎩👿 corporations on the planet. THEY are responsible for far more than half of the degradation of the biosphere now dooming so many mammalian vertebrate species to ☠️ extinction. If you think there are ANY ☝🏻 Bible believing Christians in decision making positions on those 😈🦍 Social Darwinist run corporations, I've got a bridge to sell you in Brooklyn.
Mock Christians and brand the Bible as "dangerously irrational mindfork" all you wish, that's the expected reaction of non-Christians to Christianity (But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness; 1Corinthians 1:23), but recognize that the 🦍 Darwinian ideology widely accepted as "Evolutionary science based" is ALSO a BELIEF system (i.e. Atheism) based speculation, not "science".
Though you will certainly disagree (with vigor 😁), think it is irrational for any person with critical thinking skills to believe that all the complexity of living organisms in our biosphere "just happened" by random undirected processes. Modern Scientific Inquiry and the Scientific Method were both championed by God fearing, Bible believing scientists, not atheists. If you were taught, or assume otherwise, you are the victim of Darwinian atheist mendacious propaganda.
Four reasons why warmer oceans are not a good thing.
1) Warmer waters hold less oxygen. Fish require oxygen to produce energy. So all the higher fin fish, the ones we like to eat, have less ocean to live in. Ergo, fewer fish.
2) Warmer water changes pH, so shellfish like clams and corals find it more difficult to make shells. Without shells they die.
3) Warmer waters absorb less CO2. So at some point the oceans become saturated. They stop absorbing the extra CO2 we produce and start outgassing it back into the atmosphere. This hasn't happened yet but will become a very big deal when it does start.
4) Warmer waters are more energetic. So besides intensifying El Ninos they also create more violent hurricanes and extreme rain events.
AGelbert > milo
You are right.
milo > AGelbert
Charts like that enrage the anti-AGW crowd, who I think of as the Flat Earth crowd, who refuse to admit such things have been happening. Their belief systems are as brittle and well-defended as those of the anti-vax crowd. I put a lot of effort into refuting their claims... but I know it's an exercise in futility. I'm up against rigid articles of belief.
AGelbert > milo
Agreed. I've often pondered about how the intractable mindset you accurately described comes about. I have never come to a firm conclusion as to the chain of causation that reduces an otherwise reasonable individual into a 🙊🙉🙈 propagandized weapon against common sense thinking and action. 🤦♂️
Quote
"By the skillfull and sustained use of propaganda, one can make a people see heaven as hell, or an extremely wretched life as paradise." -- Adolf Hitler
The best I have been able to reason out is that, somewhere along the line, a 😒 person decides that truth is "relative" 🙃. As soon as that unreality based assumption becomes firmly ensconced, said individual is easily convinced of irrational baloney by the morally bankrupt 🦖 legerdemian pushing 😈 greedballs who wish to add more suckers to their crowd of victims.
A lot of people out there claim that people don't actually believe all the baloney they peddle and that they are just doing it for the money. I disagree. If it was just the money, the suckers would figure out pretty quick who is getting the lion's share of that profit over planet at the expense of the biosphere we all depend on and would QUIT. But, the crowd of willfully stupid seems immune to that in-their-faces logic.
Critical Thinking Skills are in short supply in this "Brave New World".
milo > AGelbert
The thought that there are millions of people out there, all agreeing to lie to us because they're getting paid to do so by shadowy forces, and that for many decades now no one has broken the silence surrounding the Vast Plot, is the sure sign of a shallow, poorly thought out mind.
milo > AGelbert
It's pretty simple, really. The deniers come from authoritarian households, where their parents assured them they knew beyond any doubt what life was like. Usually because the Bible told them. So in later life their worldview becomes rigid, and they come to believe in their convictions far more than they believe the evidence they see in the world around them. "No! It's not getting warmer! Why just last winter we had over an inch of snow. "
AGelbert > milo
Quote
"The deniers come from authoritarian households, where their parents assured them they knew beyond any doubt what life was like. Usually because the Bible told them. So in later life their worldview becomes rigid, and they come to believe in their convictions far more than they believe the evidence they see in the world around them."
I actually was an atheist from the age of 18 to around 28.
By force of reason I slowy became a Deist.
A decade or so later I became a nominal Christian.
Decades later, I now believe the Bible is the Word of God. I come from an authoritarian household. My dad was an inflexible US Army Major that admired Mussolini! My mom was a devout Roman Catholic. I have always been able to reason out right from wrong. I firmly believe that I owe that skill to the fact that Truth was never taught to me as a "relative" concept. Having Faith in a Creator God never inhibited my critical thinking skills, though I believe I did reason well during my youth as an atheist (that is why, as long as they are advocates of egalitarianism and common sense, I can see atheist Socialists as people of good will. 🌞).
Thus, while I recognize that my Faith cannot prove the existence of God or our obligation to worship Him, when pondering causes and consequences of irrational socially destructive behavior among humans, I concentrate on root causes. As you surmise, belief systems certainly can get people to go full Red Queen in Through the Looking Glass, but misguided Christians do not have a patent on willful denial of viable biosphere math. Making them the whipping boy is choosing an easy target. I'm sure the 🦖 Hydrocarbon Hellspawn smile broadly 😈 when they see Socialists placing the lion's share of the blame for our polluted biosphere on 🦖 Fossil Fuel Industry propagandized 🙊🙉🙈 Christians.
Though I am NOT absolving the propagandized Christians from their folly, I suggest you look at the top 100 💰🦀 🐘🦕🦖🐍 🦍🐉 🎩👿 corporations on the planet. THEY are responsible for far more than half of the degradation of the biosphere now dooming so many mammalian vertebrate species to ☠️ extinction. If you think there are ANY ☝🏻 Bible believing Christians in decision making positions on those 😈🦍 Social Darwinist run corporations, I've got a bridge to sell you in Brooklyn.
Mock Christians and brand the Bible as "dangerously irrational mindfork" all you wish, that's the expected reaction of non-Christians to Christianity (But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness; 1Corinthians 1:23), but recognize that the 🦍 Darwinian ideology widely accepted as "Evolutionary science based" is ALSO a BELIEF system (i.e. Atheism) based speculation, not "science".
Though you will certainly disagree (with vigor 😁), think it is irrational for any person with critical thinking skills to believe that all the complexity of living organisms in our biosphere "just happened" by random undirected processes. Modern Scientific Inquiry and the Scientific Method were both championed by God fearing, Bible believing scientists, not atheists. If you were taught, or assume otherwise, you are the victim of Darwinian atheist mendacious propaganda.