Posted by: AGelbert
« on: December 13, 2023, 03:56:46 pm »Thread Source
AGelbert truncated post (full post with several images at Thread link):
The 😒 Hydrocarbon Fuel Based Corporations are not concerned with the future of life on planet Earth 👀.
If that seems like an irrational position for reality based human beings, who certainly do love their children, to take (even if 🦖 they, being members in good standing of the Social Darwinists 'R' US, care nothing for anybody else's children), then please read this article, and my comments on it.
SNIPPET:
Theresa Morris said, "Ethical considerations aside for a moment, the people in these powerful corporations are not stupid. They love their own children."
So, if they knew, because over 40 years ago ExxonMobil scientists laid out the facts to oil executives, who then secretly joined with several other corporations to fund denial of climate change and obstruct climate change legislation, why did they, with malice and aforethought, engage in disguising the fact that they were, and are, getting an F in viable biosphere math?
Some will say that it's a no brainer that they did it for profit. While that is partially true, it ignores the fact that big oil corporations DO believe their own scientists. It also ignores the fact that fossil fuel corporations DO NOT believe the happy talk propaganda that they fund.
They plan ahead. They plan to take advantage of the 'Fragmentation of Agency' mentioned by Stephen Gardiner. The corporations did not get limited liability laws passed because they wanted to be socially responsible. I believe they will use the 'Fragmentation of Agency', in regard to biosphere damage claims, to unjustly limit their liability in a typically unethical "damage control" exercise.
One of the themes about human history that I have tried to communicate to readers over and over is that predatory capitalist corporations, while deliberately profiting from knowingly doing something that causes pollution damage to the populace, always plan AHEAD to socialize the costs of that damage when they can no longer deny SOME liability for it. Their conscience free lackey lawyers will always work the system to limit even PROVEN 100% liability.
Read more: 🕯️
"The central problem with an argument that considers the effects of present actions on the future world lies in the fact that those acting today will not exist in the world they are affecting with their actions." -- Theresa Morris
What it Means to be Responsible - Reflections on Our Responsibility for the Future by Theresa Morris, State University of New York at New Paltz
fcfcfc
First, WOW! That's what I call a reply.
Second: "Some will say that it's a no brainer that they did it for profit. While that is partially true, it ignores the fact that big oil corporations DO believe their own scientists. It also ignores the fact that fossil fuel corporations DO NOT believe the happy talk propaganda that they fund. "Ah NO.
As the altered saying goes, "ITS THE PROFIT STUPID"!! 100%
IT'S CALLED WEALTH IMMUNIZATION.
AGelbert > fcfcfc
Your reply is precisely why I wrote the snippet of my comments to the linked article by Theresa Morris. I would be honored if you would read the full article and my comments. Then, hopefully, you would revise your, "ITS THE PROFIT STUPID"!! 100% IT'S CALLED WEALTH IMMUNIZATION." assumption. Yeah, you probably will just ignore what I just wrote, which is your prerogative, but going FULL CAPS does not provide any evidence that your position on said issue is accurate.
I get it that you just do not want to go there, but the morally bankrupt ideology I keep being so "redundant" about is the problem. These depraved wealthy polluter greedballs actually believe that "empathy is a weakness". They didn't get that stupid, socially destructive idea from makin' money, bro.
So, castigate me until the cows come home, but we-the-people will not be able to put a stop to this celebration of sociopathic biosphere destruction until the Social Darwinist Ideology at the root of this evil is exposed as an aggressive behavioral cancer threatening us with extinction and rejected by our entire civilization, in general, and the wealthy in particular. Human civilization goes the righteous route or it really is game over. Have a nice day.
fcfcfc > AGelbert
People make society's, true and bio and family can fire the clay in positions that are produced by exposed behavior in lieu of DNA (Family).
But more to the point is that Societies (Based on profit and currency) can make people as well. Read about the Famous Stanford Prison Experiment instead of the Bible and you might learn something. People do not come to the "way they are" independent of the societies they live in. You reap what you sow.
AGelbert > fcfcfc
You strike me as someone who genuinely wants a better world and a viable biosphere. For that, I am grateful.
That said, if you think my exclusive source of reality based information is the Bible, you are mistaken. All the other university stuff aside, I have 27 credit hours of biological science courses in a pre-med program of studies.
The Stanford Experiment was child's play compared with the "successes" the NAZIs had in "proving" how depraved humans can become under certain circumstances. That proves nothing but that we do have a baser nature that, if not controlled by community, as well as personal, ethical guard rails, leads to moral bankruptcy and social decay. We are there.
Your entire "that's just the way humans are" argument is based on the assumption that, underneath the thin veneer of polite civilization, we are apex predators evolved to view ethics as a feel good mirage we invented to sugar coat our predatory behavior. And, that "ignorant Bible thumpers" like yours truly do not live in the "greed is good real world". I disagree based on historical facts ( Ancient Societies Collapsed When Leaders Ignored the Social Contract ), not on ideology or Faith.
Like using FULL CAPS, demeaning discourse is a fallacious debating technique. It does nothing to substantiate your argument and/or your assumption, in pedantic opposition to what I claim, that a Matthew 7:12 Based Civilization is certainly NOT (reference to your use of caps to make your point) sine qua non to our survival as a species.
I maintain that the ideology of the Social Darwinist is indistinguishable from the despicable ideology of NAZI Germany, clearly exemplified in their brutally enforced morally bankrupt concentration camp law: “Eat your own bread, and if you can, that of your neighbor.”
What all the entrenched insiders among the parasitic, predatory elites and institutions don't dare admit publicly, though they celebrate that privately, is that to protect themselves from consequence, making the rest of us sacrifice everything else is what they-the-Apex-Predators have a Darwinain duty to do. After all, since Homo sapiens is just the result of random undirected processes, the more you can "enlightened self interest" do to get more power by causing, directly or indirectly, the death of human competitors for the species gene pool high ground, the better. Surely, you cannot, in your heart, believe that is "just how it is".
I certainly agree that you reap what you sow; there is no shortcut.
fcfcfc > AGelbert
"Your entire "that's just the way humans are" argument is based on the assumption that, underneath the thin veneer of polite civilization, we are apex predators evolved to view ethics as a feel good mirage we invented to sugar coat our predatory behavior."
Ironically, you have completely 180 degrees misinterpreted what I am saying.
It is not, at this point with our knowledge and engineering eliminating scarcity for basic needs (If we chose to), some part our base instincts driving our societal behavior. It is currency. My whole POINT of mentioning "Stanford" WAS TO SHOW YOU that it IS NOT SOME BASE drive making them what they became, but the environment of the "society" (The experiment) that forged their behavioral output. Currency FORCES a Hierarchical structure rather than a lateral one. And that is where it all starts to fall apart. Currency at this point in time is to keep those in power, with power and control. George Orwell back when he published, "1984" in 1949, realized this with clarity when he wrote the following, "The war is not meant to be won, it is meant to be continuous. Hierarchical society is only possible on the basis of poverty and ignorance. This new version is the past and no different past can ever have existed. In principle the war effort is always planned to keep society on the brink of starvation. The war is waged by the ruling group against its own subjects and its object is not the victory over either Eurasia or East Asia, but to keep the very structure of society intact".
War is waged today for profit (GMIC) to keep feeding the profit, power and control to those that possess it.
You need to improve your reading comprehension.
And I suppose to be nice and help you out, the massive significance of what George is saying about Hierarchical society is NOT that poverty and ignorance are needed for it, but what is he SAYING ABOUT THE DESIRABILITY OF A HEIRACHIEAL SOCIETY in the first place!?
AGelbert > fcfcfc
Irony?
More ad hom 🤦♂️? More "strenuous efforts on your 👨🔬 erudite self to patiently educate the Bible 🐵 thumper"? 😁 You need to polish your legerdemain, bro.
If your purpose is to "shame" me into abandoning this discussion by your continued display of "wisdom", you will succeed, not because of that, but because you have convinced me that you are not interested in reasonable debate.
Also, one more gratuitous snipe from you and you can count on being permanently free from suffering my "lack of reading comprehension", as I will no longer trouble you with responses to your posts.
Sir, please read carefully and slowly what you just quoted from George Orwell. Now, without having any blood pressure issues, please find some difference, in fundamental ideology, worldview, attitude, moral bankruptcy (and so on -you get the idea) between that Orwellian modus operandi and David Harvey's quote below about Neoliberal Ideology (hint: there is not a dime's worth of difference between them).
The celebrated social theorist and geographer David Harvey explains that neoliberal ideology serves the following principle:
"There shall be no serious challenge to the absolute power of money to rule absolutely. And that power is to be exercised with one objective: Those possessed of money shall not only be privileged to accumulate wealth endlessly at will, but they shall have the right to inherit the earth, taking either direct or indirect dominion, not only of the land and all the resources and productive capacities that reside therein, but also assume absolute command, directly or indirectly, over the labor and creative capacities of all those others it needs. The rest of humanity shall be deemed disposable."
You are allergic to going there, but anyone with two brain cells to rub together can see that the ROOT of BOTH of these "Might Equals Right" socially destructive approaches to human "bidness" is Social Darwinism. However, you cannot accept the hard TRUTH that 🦍 Social Darwinism is a clear and present ☠️ DANGER TO SOCIETY because you are obssessed with the role of 💰 currency in human affairs. Consequently you have unreasonably blinded yourself to the fact that 💵🎩🍌 control of the currency is just ONE of MANY 🦍 AUTHORITARIAN 🔨 TOOLS the Social Darwinists tyrannically wield, NOT the REASON they DO what they DO.
😁 You will, no doubt, vigorously disagree, but Thomas Paine had your number.
As to LACK OF READING COMPREHENSION SKILLS...
AGelbert truncated post (full post with several images at Thread link):
The 😒 Hydrocarbon Fuel Based Corporations are not concerned with the future of life on planet Earth 👀.
If that seems like an irrational position for reality based human beings, who certainly do love their children, to take (even if 🦖 they, being members in good standing of the Social Darwinists 'R' US, care nothing for anybody else's children), then please read this article, and my comments on it.
SNIPPET:
Theresa Morris said, "Ethical considerations aside for a moment, the people in these powerful corporations are not stupid. They love their own children."
So, if they knew, because over 40 years ago ExxonMobil scientists laid out the facts to oil executives, who then secretly joined with several other corporations to fund denial of climate change and obstruct climate change legislation, why did they, with malice and aforethought, engage in disguising the fact that they were, and are, getting an F in viable biosphere math?
Some will say that it's a no brainer that they did it for profit. While that is partially true, it ignores the fact that big oil corporations DO believe their own scientists. It also ignores the fact that fossil fuel corporations DO NOT believe the happy talk propaganda that they fund.
They plan ahead. They plan to take advantage of the 'Fragmentation of Agency' mentioned by Stephen Gardiner. The corporations did not get limited liability laws passed because they wanted to be socially responsible. I believe they will use the 'Fragmentation of Agency', in regard to biosphere damage claims, to unjustly limit their liability in a typically unethical "damage control" exercise.
One of the themes about human history that I have tried to communicate to readers over and over is that predatory capitalist corporations, while deliberately profiting from knowingly doing something that causes pollution damage to the populace, always plan AHEAD to socialize the costs of that damage when they can no longer deny SOME liability for it. Their conscience free lackey lawyers will always work the system to limit even PROVEN 100% liability.
Read more: 🕯️
"The central problem with an argument that considers the effects of present actions on the future world lies in the fact that those acting today will not exist in the world they are affecting with their actions." -- Theresa Morris
What it Means to be Responsible - Reflections on Our Responsibility for the Future by Theresa Morris, State University of New York at New Paltz
fcfcfc
First, WOW! That's what I call a reply.
Second: "Some will say that it's a no brainer that they did it for profit. While that is partially true, it ignores the fact that big oil corporations DO believe their own scientists. It also ignores the fact that fossil fuel corporations DO NOT believe the happy talk propaganda that they fund. "Ah NO.
As the altered saying goes, "ITS THE PROFIT STUPID"!! 100%
IT'S CALLED WEALTH IMMUNIZATION.
AGelbert > fcfcfc
Your reply is precisely why I wrote the snippet of my comments to the linked article by Theresa Morris. I would be honored if you would read the full article and my comments. Then, hopefully, you would revise your, "ITS THE PROFIT STUPID"!! 100% IT'S CALLED WEALTH IMMUNIZATION." assumption. Yeah, you probably will just ignore what I just wrote, which is your prerogative, but going FULL CAPS does not provide any evidence that your position on said issue is accurate.
I get it that you just do not want to go there, but the morally bankrupt ideology I keep being so "redundant" about is the problem. These depraved wealthy polluter greedballs actually believe that "empathy is a weakness". They didn't get that stupid, socially destructive idea from makin' money, bro.
So, castigate me until the cows come home, but we-the-people will not be able to put a stop to this celebration of sociopathic biosphere destruction until the Social Darwinist Ideology at the root of this evil is exposed as an aggressive behavioral cancer threatening us with extinction and rejected by our entire civilization, in general, and the wealthy in particular. Human civilization goes the righteous route or it really is game over. Have a nice day.
fcfcfc > AGelbert
People make society's, true and bio and family can fire the clay in positions that are produced by exposed behavior in lieu of DNA (Family).
But more to the point is that Societies (Based on profit and currency) can make people as well. Read about the Famous Stanford Prison Experiment instead of the Bible and you might learn something. People do not come to the "way they are" independent of the societies they live in. You reap what you sow.
AGelbert > fcfcfc
You strike me as someone who genuinely wants a better world and a viable biosphere. For that, I am grateful.
That said, if you think my exclusive source of reality based information is the Bible, you are mistaken. All the other university stuff aside, I have 27 credit hours of biological science courses in a pre-med program of studies.
The Stanford Experiment was child's play compared with the "successes" the NAZIs had in "proving" how depraved humans can become under certain circumstances. That proves nothing but that we do have a baser nature that, if not controlled by community, as well as personal, ethical guard rails, leads to moral bankruptcy and social decay. We are there.
Your entire "that's just the way humans are" argument is based on the assumption that, underneath the thin veneer of polite civilization, we are apex predators evolved to view ethics as a feel good mirage we invented to sugar coat our predatory behavior. And, that "ignorant Bible thumpers" like yours truly do not live in the "greed is good real world". I disagree based on historical facts ( Ancient Societies Collapsed When Leaders Ignored the Social Contract ), not on ideology or Faith.
Like using FULL CAPS, demeaning discourse is a fallacious debating technique. It does nothing to substantiate your argument and/or your assumption, in pedantic opposition to what I claim, that a Matthew 7:12 Based Civilization is certainly NOT (reference to your use of caps to make your point) sine qua non to our survival as a species.
I maintain that the ideology of the Social Darwinist is indistinguishable from the despicable ideology of NAZI Germany, clearly exemplified in their brutally enforced morally bankrupt concentration camp law: “Eat your own bread, and if you can, that of your neighbor.”
What all the entrenched insiders among the parasitic, predatory elites and institutions don't dare admit publicly, though they celebrate that privately, is that to protect themselves from consequence, making the rest of us sacrifice everything else is what they-the-Apex-Predators have a Darwinain duty to do. After all, since Homo sapiens is just the result of random undirected processes, the more you can "enlightened self interest" do to get more power by causing, directly or indirectly, the death of human competitors for the species gene pool high ground, the better. Surely, you cannot, in your heart, believe that is "just how it is".
I certainly agree that you reap what you sow; there is no shortcut.
fcfcfc > AGelbert
"Your entire "that's just the way humans are" argument is based on the assumption that, underneath the thin veneer of polite civilization, we are apex predators evolved to view ethics as a feel good mirage we invented to sugar coat our predatory behavior."
Ironically, you have completely 180 degrees misinterpreted what I am saying.
It is not, at this point with our knowledge and engineering eliminating scarcity for basic needs (If we chose to), some part our base instincts driving our societal behavior. It is currency. My whole POINT of mentioning "Stanford" WAS TO SHOW YOU that it IS NOT SOME BASE drive making them what they became, but the environment of the "society" (The experiment) that forged their behavioral output. Currency FORCES a Hierarchical structure rather than a lateral one. And that is where it all starts to fall apart. Currency at this point in time is to keep those in power, with power and control. George Orwell back when he published, "1984" in 1949, realized this with clarity when he wrote the following, "The war is not meant to be won, it is meant to be continuous. Hierarchical society is only possible on the basis of poverty and ignorance. This new version is the past and no different past can ever have existed. In principle the war effort is always planned to keep society on the brink of starvation. The war is waged by the ruling group against its own subjects and its object is not the victory over either Eurasia or East Asia, but to keep the very structure of society intact".
War is waged today for profit (GMIC) to keep feeding the profit, power and control to those that possess it.
You need to improve your reading comprehension.
And I suppose to be nice and help you out, the massive significance of what George is saying about Hierarchical society is NOT that poverty and ignorance are needed for it, but what is he SAYING ABOUT THE DESIRABILITY OF A HEIRACHIEAL SOCIETY in the first place!?
AGelbert > fcfcfc
Irony?
More ad hom 🤦♂️? More "strenuous efforts on your 👨🔬 erudite self to patiently educate the Bible 🐵 thumper"? 😁 You need to polish your legerdemain, bro.
If your purpose is to "shame" me into abandoning this discussion by your continued display of "wisdom", you will succeed, not because of that, but because you have convinced me that you are not interested in reasonable debate.
Also, one more gratuitous snipe from you and you can count on being permanently free from suffering my "lack of reading comprehension", as I will no longer trouble you with responses to your posts.
Sir, please read carefully and slowly what you just quoted from George Orwell. Now, without having any blood pressure issues, please find some difference, in fundamental ideology, worldview, attitude, moral bankruptcy (and so on -you get the idea) between that Orwellian modus operandi and David Harvey's quote below about Neoliberal Ideology (hint: there is not a dime's worth of difference between them).
The celebrated social theorist and geographer David Harvey explains that neoliberal ideology serves the following principle:
"There shall be no serious challenge to the absolute power of money to rule absolutely. And that power is to be exercised with one objective: Those possessed of money shall not only be privileged to accumulate wealth endlessly at will, but they shall have the right to inherit the earth, taking either direct or indirect dominion, not only of the land and all the resources and productive capacities that reside therein, but also assume absolute command, directly or indirectly, over the labor and creative capacities of all those others it needs. The rest of humanity shall be deemed disposable."
You are allergic to going there, but anyone with two brain cells to rub together can see that the ROOT of BOTH of these "Might Equals Right" socially destructive approaches to human "bidness" is Social Darwinism. However, you cannot accept the hard TRUTH that 🦍 Social Darwinism is a clear and present ☠️ DANGER TO SOCIETY because you are obssessed with the role of 💰 currency in human affairs. Consequently you have unreasonably blinded yourself to the fact that 💵🎩🍌 control of the currency is just ONE of MANY 🦍 AUTHORITARIAN 🔨 TOOLS the Social Darwinists tyrannically wield, NOT the REASON they DO what they DO.
😁 You will, no doubt, vigorously disagree, but Thomas Paine had your number.
As to LACK OF READING COMPREHENSION SKILLS...