CleanTechnicaJune 30, 2023 By Michael Barnard 👍
Selected COMMENTS:cfcfcAs a person who happens to have his undergrad in Psych, the social and psychological non since that has been going on since the FCC gave a license to Fox, has been an observation of a real world global experiment.
Quite a ways back I wrote:
https://fcfcfcwearesolar.blogspot.com/2020/08/the-reality-and-ramifications-of-being.htmlIt goes back to August 2020 and is targeted at the squatter. But the Psychology applies to any social "event" where an individual gets "conned" into doing something. It could be lying, taking drugs, joining a particular group (Military, Religion, Gang, take your pick) etc... Once the individual commits to "the cause", breaking free becomes very, very difficult. Couple that with the possible financial and social benefit of the "position", and you begin to understand why we have already fallen off the cliff.
AGelbert > cfcfc Well said.
Economist Steve Keen: "We need a World War Two mentality to deal with the real breakdown of nature."





Have you been told by the 😈🦖 Deniers that CO2 is plant food so MORE CO2 is 😒 "GOOD"? 🙄Rocky 2 How many ways are there to lie using electrons? Let me count the ways ...
Written words
Images
Videos
Audio
Web
Online reviews
AI
Augmented Reality
Virtual Reality
Metaverse
An incomplete list that grows almost weekly. Too much money to be made twisting the truth.
“The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.” Many paths to the same destination.
Agelbert > Rocky 2
Excellent comment!The 🐍 liars for 🦖 hire have been at this serial disingenuous propaganda for a long tme, but now these morally bankrupt defenders of profit over people and planet are discarding any restraint to their bold faced mendacity.
ScottAll of the lifecycle analysis are basically useless. It overcomplicates things and gives people numbers and assumptions to argue over.
The reality is much simpler. We need to decarbonize everything, mostly electrify everything. This needs to be done in parallel. Simple.
So I buy an EV. Now I'm not burning gas. Those emissions are now gone.
Now what about the power source? well maybe some coal plants in the mix. The answer? shut those down , and replace with non carbon sources. Or throw up some solar panels on your roof.
What about the steel used in the EV? answer...let's decarbonize that too. In the meantime keep buying EVs, even if the steel production is dirty, otherwise that steel is going into an ICE or oil tanker or whatever.
Instead if we fixate on lifecycle emissions analysis, and the order of things (eg. can't buy the EV until the grid is perfectly clean, can't clean the grid until the solar panel production is clean, can't build the solar panels until the steel used in them is clean.... etc.. we will never get anywhere)
Margie Lynch-Freshner > ScottThe trouble is that you are being logical and considering the good of the Earth and all the life on it. /s
But for the human race to live, then the fossil fuel industry MUST die. The aforementioned FF industry has no investment in anyone but their stockholders, and perhaps their customers. So they take a tiny bit of their multiple millions of daily profit (each FF company) and invest it in slow-walking the transition.
AGelbert > Margie Lynch-Freshner BINGO!



Margie Lynch-Freshner > AGelbertStealing these!
AGelbert > Margie Lynch-FreshnerThank you. I've lots more you can use at my gallery. I just want more and more people to spread the unvarnishd truth about what we are faced with.
https://soberthinking.createaforum.com/index.php?action=galleryCollectivist Action > AGelbert"The horror!"
(Marlon Brando in Apocalypse Now)
windbourne > AGelbertOne of the bigger problems would be fools like the goon squad. They are pushing to stop O&G drilling in America, while ignoring the fact that more than 1/3 of O&G goes into Chemicals. Oddly enough, the cheap O&G allows us to make such things as inexpensive EVs.
If the west kills off O&G, then we have to be prepared to send ALL manufacturing off to China, Russia, India, etc.
Oh, and neither CHina nor Russia are in a hurry to stop burning Coal or O&G.
Instead, we need to be focused on stopping the BURNING of O&G and Coal. A fast way to stop the shutdown and cause restarting of shutdown coal plants is to make nat gas expensive. A faster way to FORCE the west to increase burning of O&G along with coal, is kill off nuclear power. One of the cleanest forms of energy going. And yet, the goon squad and greens want to kill it off due to a lack of education and irrational FUD.
AGelbert > windbourne"... more than 1/3 of O&G goes into Chemicals." 
That is an
inaccurate statement.
Over 86% of every barrel of refined crude oil, and nearly 100% of all CH4 gas, are used for FUEL. Petrochemicals are 7.5% at most.
"... nuclear power. One of the cleanest forms of energy going."
There is absolutely NOTHING "clean" about nuclear power.
windbourne > AGelbert You are as much to blame for AGW as is the far right.
https://cen.acs.org/business/petrochemicals/future-oil-chemicals-fuels/97/i85-7%? Nope.
Even asphalt, a chemical, is larger than 2-3%.
As to Nuclear power, it is a CLEAN ENERGY, and thankfully, it WILL BE COMING.
Be it from Russia and CHina, OR from the west with better quality and less chance of failures, IT WILL BE COMING.
In addition, it remains cheaper than is PV/Wind since you NEVER include the costs of storage, backing up with FF, or even the tear-down and disposal.
By 2025, the partners expect to have a facility that will make petrochemicals—9 million metric tons (t) of them—directly from 400,000 barrels (bbl) per day of Arabian light crude oil. Whereas most refineries convert just 5–20% of incoming oil into petrochemicals, some 45% of the output of the Yanbu facility will be chemicals, including olefins, aromatics, glycols, and polymers.
AGelbert > windbournePerhaps you will not think this reply to you is relevant to what you posted or your allegations on what is the "best course of action" for our civilization to follow. We are in a very deep pollution generating energy hole.
Before you can claim this or that "new" technology can "clean up the dirty energy" now dooming most of the high order mammalian vertebrate species on this planet, including Homo sapiens, to mass die-offs from a severely degraded biosphere, it is common sense to stop digging. Yes, of course using a larger percentage of hydrocarbon based chemical feedstock to make plastics, medicines, fertilizer and so on is a far better use for them than stupidly burning them for short term profit over planet. However, there is insufficent demand for those products at present to enable the 😈 Giant 🦖 Oil and 🦕 Gas Corporations to turn away from there environmentally destructive 86% FUEL products ☠️ "business model". The fact that you ignore that irrefutable petrochemical feedstock economic reality is telling.
It is wishful thinking to expect the 🦖 Oil Majors will change their 😈 FUEL based
modus operandi any time soon. And brother, WE ARE OUT OF TIME for doubletalk and guile based 🐍 disingenuous 😇 pie in the sky claims.
Furthermore, absolutely
all cost benefit studies about ☠️ Nuclear Power Plants evidence that they are NOT carbon neutral, which means they are NOT "clean". I won't get into a back and forth with you about that but I will point out the INSURANCE on the ☠️ Nuclear Power Plants has ALWAYS been Government subsidized (i.e. HANDOUT funded by WE-THE-TAXPAYERS. 👎😠) Private insurers will not touch ☠️Nuclear Power Plant insurance with 10 foot pole because they KNOW the ☠️ risk. Yet, people like you totally ignore that 👎. Don't bother to "explain". Selective 😈 "externalization" of costs is par for the course for all 😈 dirty energy producers. And speaking of the costs of storage "not included" that you were so VOLUBLE about, Tell me, WHO is going to
pay for baby sitting "used" nuclear fuel rods for the next CENTURY OR SO❓❗ Are nuclear power plant 😈 operators going to do it? NOT unless we-the-people are FORCED to PAY whatever thay want to charge 💰🤦♂️ for nuclear power based electricity. You know that, of course, but I am convinced you could care less, while disngenuously claiming the opposite👎😠.
Do you think mining for and "enriching" (an amazingly Orwellian term for making a radioactive element more toxic in order to enable them to produce fission when molded into a fuel rod) radionuclides is done with "clean" energy? Repeatedly claiming that Nuclear Power is "CLEAN", in CAPS 🙄, no less, while ignoring the pollution produced when mining and refining (
AND storing "used" fuel rods for a century or so❗) is irrational.

I've been hearing the "too cheap to meter" BALONEY from the likes of Nuclear power 🐍 proponents since I was a teenager 60 years teenager. It was disngenuous doubletalk then, and it is straight up mendacity now.
Thank God most people here at CleanTechnica are not fooled. I do not know how much they pay you for disseminating this happy talk wishful thinking about technology that does not exist yet, but I guarantee you that, if your recommendations are followed, you will, within LESS than a decade, rue the day you supported this folly.

Jeremiah 17:9-10 (KJV) The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it? I the Lord search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.The Librivox Free Audiobook 'Tilda Jane is fiction, but the hardhips and hard hearts portrayed are all too real in human society.